Fine Andy, you want to take it there, take it there. No, he was not a “sex worker” and he was not a phone sex operator. Ever. On one single afternoon, for two hours, he did one modeling session. I will freely admit I don’t know what exactly happened in that two hour afternoon. I know that he never bothered to inflate it into a drama or make a big deal. He was extremely matter of fact about it, said there was a little nudity but nothing much, and moved on. It was definitely not “hardcore porn” nor was it with any other people.
Yes, I am fully aware that this could scar someone, or be traumatic. I do not mean to undermine anyone who experienced such pain. However, the event was minor, one time, and never came up again. He didn’t even rub it in my face that he had to do it. It was a business transaction, as far as he ever treated it. And I have never said a word about it to anyone until this post.
We were very poor in Hollywood, and he made $100. I know that, because it paid for our rent and dinner (our motel was $85 nightly). He did try to push *me* into sex work, specifically modeling and stripping. But he’d invariably sigh and say that I was either too fat, or that my loose skin from losing so much weight would mean I could “only do freaky fetish shows.” Him doing sex work never came up aside from the incident above.
He NEVER had ANY kind of phone sex (or ANY phone related) jobs. The closest was him working as a commissioned salesman for VeriPhone, a credit card reader company. That was for about 3 weeks and we made no money. Andy claimed he was scammed by the guy he’d been signed up by. Maybe true, maybe not, but thats the closest to a phone he ever got. Hell, we didn’t HAVE phones, ffs. All we did was take pictures for tips in costumes.
Rule of thumb: if Andy claims something out of nowhere that is dramatic, traumatic, scandalous and salacious…it’s almost guaranteed to be a lie, or at best a vast exaggeration.
Yeah, I basically suspected as much. I held back from calling bullshit because, well, it IS within the realm of possibility but I expected it was likely a lie.
And we get yet more insight into Andy’s abusiveness and efforts at coercion. Disgusting. What a horrible, horrible person. And this is why his efforts to portray himself as body-pos and loving “real women” always make me retch… cos the truth is what happens behind closed doors and THIS was utter psychological abuse to the extreme. I’m so sorry you were subjected to that, Abbey, on top of everything else.
However, I need to point out to everyone in this discussion that it is entirely possible for people to be sex workers with no one else in their lives knowing or even suspecting, literally thousands of women achieve this every single day. Not that I think that’s what happened here, given the oppressive closeness he needed to maintain with Abbey throughout this time, but noise about how it’s impossible to sex work without people not knowing just paves the way for toxic and damaging ideas about sex workers.
Also I don’t know why Abbey put the term sex work in scare quotes or assumed it was traumatic and damaging (unless Andy has suddenly popped out with it)? Pretty sure we can broach the subject of Andy lying about having been a sex worker without being whorephobic or contributing to stigmatizing ideas about sex workers.
I did take another look, and the OP doesn’t say anything bad about strippers. She’s not one. She says do not dismiss the thing I do and/or deliberately mis-label me. That’s not being anti sex-worker any more than me saying do not call me a woman is being misogynistic. The people being misogynistic or anti sex-worker would be the ones inaccurately calling me a woman or her a stripper as insults.
PS: I’ve been a sex worker. I more than try to think about it.
Her OP was whorephobic and you are whorephobic and just because you did a tiny little bit of sex work ten years ago doesn’t make you not so, you colossally misogynistic, arrogant whorephobic (or “anti-sex worker” if you prefer) creepy piece of shit. More importantly a tiny tiny little bit of sex work ten years ago does NOT make you an expert on sex work or in any way an authority to speak on it and the hair splitting you do here about the OPs intent (she was OBVIOUSLY being derogatory toward strippers, it’s called an undertone, someone who has led their entire lives manipulating people online in text form should be familiar with it - and we all know you are) shows it.
And what the other comment you got (an ACTUAL stripper, something you have never been, and the convenient invocation of your ‘stripper friends’ doesn’t change this) says absolutely stands: there is a WORLD of difference between doing phone sex and posing for some photos in a controlled environment and being a hooker or a stripper. I have done all four kinds of sex work and yes, I found phone sex and posing awkward to do more so than stripping or hooking in some respects; that doesn’t change the fact that the latter types of work require a level of physical engagement with the client that has a vastly greater impact on the worker than more remote forms of sex work do (like legality and privacy and working within small communities etc etc etc) and all these factors PLUS the fact you are ACTUALLY TOUCHING a lot of strange men make hooking and stripping VASTLY more stigmatised and discriminated against. Letting loose with a stream of XXX-rated smut on the phone may feel more weirdly intimate than gyrating around a pole but socially phone sex is seen as something acceptably raunchy and stripping is NOT. Saying you did some phone sex and a little erotic modelling ten years ago is gonna get you one helluva different reaction in the public eye than ‘I currently fuck 10+ men a week for money’ and that difference COUNTS for a bazillion reasons to do with oppression and privilege and saying ‘I was a sex worker’ is a DELIBERATE OBFUSCATION of that. That’s what your commenter was getting at and YOU KNOW THAT but in typical style you are being deliberately disingenuous rather than admit you were wrong and have a chink in your perfect man-feminist armour.
Sorry bro, but your long history of being a gross misogynistic shitstain (seriously, the femanist schtick you guys pull is always the same, we’re not falling for it) already has that thing in rusty tatters.
I know this is literally impossible for you, but gain one small modicum of humility and shut the fuck up about shit you know nothing about.
#at least PSOs & models aren’t as frequently odious as camgirls#but holy shit#the gall#also people who do sex work for ten minutes years ago who continue to position themselves as authorities#shut uuuuuuup
The next person who makes a joke about my pole dancing and calls me a stripper, I’m going to show them this photo and say, “You may or may not take me seriously, but just know that I can probably crush your tiny little skull with my thigh muscles.”
There’s nothing I don’t love about this.
Yo who the fuck do you think came up with those moves but strippers? Show some respect you clueless little nitwit. Your transgressive hobby was created, developed, and perfected by the very women your snotty ass is deriding, and we do it in eight inch heels, without lessons, learning as we go in front of live audiences.
Arrogant little fools want an edgy and cool hobby that was created by marginalized women and instead of honoring that history or showing respect they sanitize it, do it barefoot in sports bras and gym shorts with splayed feet, and talk about how they’re BETTER than us?
i saw a stripper spin around a pole while another stripper her rode her like she was a surboard. it was amazing. strippers are amazing.
strippers are hardcore athletes and dancers and sex workers. I can barely WALK in my pleasers and these badasses do pole tricks in them. Show some respect!
SAY IT AGAIN SAY IT AGAIN
for the comments.
Hahaha what people literally always never stop talking about how addiction intersects with sex work and usually in order to deny us human and labour rights. Sex work and addiction are literally presumed mutually exclusive and seen as one of the top 3 reasons we can’t be trusted with our own lives.
i literally never see ppl who have an interventionist or abolitionist stance on sex work here actually engage sex workers or talk to them. it’s like they have cooties. even if you really don’t like their views or politics i think it’s telling when you roll your eyes at even engaging them.
That would mean having to actually acknowledge we’re human lol
If you have one of those stringent feminist-tumblin’ ethics of not reblogging from transmisogynists/racists/homophobes/ableists etc even if you really like the post otherwise but you don’t extend that to whorephobes your politics are flimsy as fuck bulllllshit lol.
whorephobia is just as critical an issue as any other and excusing it because “it’s a complex subject tee hee” is an almighty cop out.
plus do I really need to point out how often and profoundly it intersects with other oppressions? No der.
don’t follow whorephobes. don’t reblog from whorephobes. don’t reblog whorephobic bullshit. and especially don’t do these things and make a big production about how zero tolerant you are towards having content on your blog that comes from people with oppressive ideas. you’re being a fucking hypocrite.
Preamble: Once a working friend told me that she didn’t want to take on “sex worker” as a politicized identity (1).
I respect that: no one should be obligated to identify a certain way, or to take on politics that don’t inspire them. But for myself, I’m certain that sex work is not and can never be politically neutral; it can’t ever be anything less than a site of struggle. Being a person who exchanges sex for money is to be a certain kind of cultural outsider. It’s to be someone who is researched and criminalized, someone who is the subject of fascination and the butt of endless sitcom jokes. The disgust with which our culture regards whores is very old and runs very deep, and our radical communities are not immune to this.
I want so badly for radical queers, anti-authoritarians, anarchists and everybody else to see that their struggles intersect with ours so we can all kick ass together. The intricacies of the sex industry illuminate aspects of work, gender, care, class, sexuality and zillions of other points of struggle. Sex workers are intimate with capitalism, patriarchy, class (and more) in ways that other people aren’t, and our experiences give us insight that can inform resistance.
Even in radical communities there are all kinds of things getting in the way of having these conversations, so here’s a (very much in-progress) list of ways radical folk can get their shit together and move towards a more meaningful solidarity with sex workers. You’re welcome.
9 Ways to Be In Solidarity With Sex Workers
1. The first and most important thing you can do to be in solidarity with sex workers is understand that it’s really complicated. Let’s cultivate an analysis that leaves room for sex work to be different things to different people at different times: annoying, financially empowering, traumatic, funny or mundane. Help us out by disrupting narratives about sex work that let some people shoehorn our experiences into (often over-generalized, shitty) political positions.
2. Don’t stigmatize our clients. This is so huge. Assuming that clients are “gross” or “sketchy” feeds the narrative of sex workers as victims. We deal with entitled assholes, uncomfortable situations, and trauma, yeah, but that’s not your conversation to have. Men pay for sex for so many reasons beyond just wanting to get off— like boredom, loneliness, social awkwardness, or disability. When you stigmatize men who pay for sex, you stigmatize our work, and by extension, us.
3. Challenge narratives that characterize sex work as “selling our bodies.” So you’ve realized that maybe sex work isn’t anti-feminist or inherently exploitative. That’s cool. I still hear rad people refer to folks “selling their bodies.” It’s offensive and dehumanizing, and denies us agency. Sex work commodifies sexual acts, not the bodies that perform them. If you can’t shake the supply-and-demand metaphor it would be more accurate to say we’re renting our asses, not selling them.
4. Stop being fascinated. It makes me not want to talk about work with you. I can feel you taking in my outfit, my body, my demeanor, wondering who pays me and how much and how it goes down. It’s so weird.
5. Don’t judge, project, and shame. In addition to being fat, queer, of colour, or trans, a ton of sex workers are plain, awkward, shy, or not particularly femme. Teach yourself to be unsurprised by this fact. While we’re at it, please don’t suggest that we’re too smart, skilled, radical, or otherwise awesome to be doing sex work. And don’t assume or suggest that we could or should get “real” jobs, or that we even want to. This happens in so many ways, subtly and blatantly. (I personally struggle with so much shame around not having a superstar social work or activist job).
6. Don’t conflate sex trafficking with consensual sex work (or let other people do it). Conflating the two hurts sex workers and hurts trafficked people. It imposes victimhood on those who aren’t trafficked (leading to paternalistic, often dangerous legal and social service interventions) and entrenches a shoddy understanding of what trafficking actually is (kidnapping, forced displacement, and exploitation).
7. Don’t assume that all sex work is the same. Phone sex is not web-camming is not escorting is not stripping is not street work is not survival sex. Don’t feel empowered to talk about sex work because one time you hung out with a stripper or went to a workshop facilitated by an escort. (And hey, hoes, doing one kind of work doesn’t mean we’re in solidarity with people who work in other ways).
8. Don’t make us repeat ourselves. Look, it’s work: because we say it is, and because that should be self-evident. It’s different than other jobs. It’s still a job. We have to say this over and over again and be patient with you while you struggle to conceive of and talk about sex work like it’s work. That feels really crumby.
9. Don’t assume you get it. If you’ve never worked (or maybe even if you have), you have hang-ups about sex work. All you badass intersectional anarchists and feminists, women’s shelter/rape crisis workers, social workers, women’s studies grads, anti-poverty organizers: you harbour the same fear, fascination, and disgust as the rest of the world. You’re working on it. That’s awesome. Thank you! But don’t assume you get it.
Here is very good post on basic ways to interact with sex workers: http://not-a-jerk.blogspot.ca/2011/09/how-to-interact-with-sex-worker.html
1. We talked about it lots since, and that’s not where she’s at anymore. (Either way, it’s fine.)
When you came you didn’t expect to come
But you did, before I could
And when I finally did you fit so perfectly in my arms
Blurring the space between me and you
Why didn’t you take my money?
They all want money
The rats that prowl the streets, the web and my home
Everybody looking for what comes next
But you didn’t take my money
That’s one hundred and twenty dollars
You kissed me on the lips and stole my serendipity,my serenity
How can I be bitter now?
There’s nothing more to say
I don’t even have sadness now that you are gone away
To the whore who took my words
I love you I will say
But there’s a serious shortage of poets
And I wish you’ve let me pay
Blech. I don’t know whether I should be more offended or disgusted or amused. It’s every client’s fantasy.
Lol how deluded
Bro. When hookers have an orgasm we don’t refuse to be paid. We feel smug we just got paid to have an orgasm.
Then we go and laugh about you to our friends about how you think you’re god’s gift for giving someone an orgasm when we can have those by ourselves for free any old time.
Oh—you wouldn’t date a girl who’s ever been a stripper?
In that case, I wouldn’t date a guy who’s ever been to a strip club.
Oh—you wouldn’t date a girl who’s ever done porn?
In that case, I wouldn’t date a guy who’s ever watched porn.
You’re the reason we exist.
You’re the demand to our supply.
If you disdain sex workers, don’t you dare consume our labor.
As they say in the industry, “People jack off with the left hand and point with the right.”” —
No I fucking LOVE this.
The UK’s biggest ever investigation of sex trafficking failed to find a single person who had forced anybody into prostitution in spite of hundreds of raids on sex workers in a six-month campaign by government departments, specialist agencies and every police force in the country.
The failure has been disclosed by a Guardian investigation which also suggests that the scale of and nature of sex trafficking into the UK has been exaggerated by politicians and media.
this keeps me warm at night
excerpt from an email from the director of a fan film I was sent
wooooooooow. sounds amazing…
how to describe the sheer gnawing black vacuum of original creativity involved in the process of posing to yourself the question: “what can I do to take this female character [who slyly inverts a thousand stereotypes in an appealing and sympathetic way whilst seeming outwardly to conform to them and has actually already traded sex for favours in canon] and make her DARK!!! and GRITTY!!!!! and R RATED!!!!” and the answer you reach “prostitute”, I mean, SERIOUSLY.
Like “I’ve made her into a prostitute!” tells you exactly what kind he means… every hackneyed, cliched, dehumanising, offensive, hurtful stereotype complete with a total absence of character development and complexity because those things are assumed as inherent to the depiction of broken-down-pimp-beaten-hooker by unimaginative hacks, rather than the paper-thin, soulless, utterly empty shells of bog standard and totally untrue-to-life tropes they are.
doing this is very similar to the “female character gets raped” device: it’s a lazy shortcut to ‘character development’ that doesn’t require putting in any actual effort and usually relies on a shallow, fetishistic projection of what the experience even means. In a one-size-fits-all format, of course.
It is used when the concept of ‘adult material’ is valued over actually telling a quality story, because hookers aren’t anything more than a bit of raunchy, sleazy titillation and for some baffling, obscure, opaque reason a certain level of grossly immature mind believes that ‘grimdark edginess and ‘gritty realism’ automatically equals ‘high quality’ (spoiler alert: it doesn’t).
It is grossly trivialising and dehumanising of the complex reality that is sex workers’ lives and shows a profound disrespect for female characters that it takes them parading around in their lingerie and being beaten up giving you a kinky little thrill whilst simultaneously arousing your nauseating pity in order to see them as interesting and sophisticated people. Not even an attitude you extend to ACTUAL sex workers. And that the hacks who regurgitate this sludge actually think it elevates their work is the kicker. “The rogues gallery as you’ve never seen them before… HQ as a prozzietoot!!!” Like so obviously we’re meant to get a voyeur kick out of seeing a well known character so “degraded”. Like HQ et al aren’t already sexualized to the extreme sufficiently, oh no, you gotta wham us over the heads with it THIS WOMAN HAS SEX SHE IS SEXUALLY DESIRABLE SHE IS SEXUALLY ACTIVE GET YER BONERS IN HAND GUYS AND GET READY WHORE ON THE BOX.
Can we talk about how every time a piece of media has a vaguely feminist bent it inevitably has the shocking, bone chilling thoroughly exploitative TRAFFICKING storyline. Because nothing says srs wmns isses like voyeuristic sex drama.
why does every tumblr-based asexual media invariably start and/or focus on an inherently sexual industry or pastime, like porn or a kink club?
because how would people know the main character is asexual if we don’t have grossly exaggerated portrayals of icky sexysexuals to compare their noble struggle to, trek???
oh silly me of course why didn’t I think of that, italics
grin and bare it all: against liberal conceptions of sex work
AN INCREASINGLY EMOTINALLY INVASIVE PERFORMANCE OF ENTHUSIASTIC CONSENT. SHOTS FUCKING FIRED.